Marc Andreessen氏：起業家精神と自己内省

David Senra: I wasn't expecting to start here. I want to talk about why you were consuming so much caffeine that you noticed that your heart was skipping a beat.Marc Andreessen: So, I love caffeine. So for a very long time, I always said that the ultimate day, like, the perfect day was 12 hours of caffeine followed by four hours of alcohol. That's just like the ultimate. I did cut out, or at least for now, I've cut out the four hours of alcohol. But yeah, caffeine is just one of nature's most marvelous things. But yeah, it turns out you can't overdo it. And so, yeah, a while ago, I was drinking so much coffee at work that I was sitting in a meeting a couple years ago, and I started to feel just a little bit... Something felt off, and I just took my pulse, and I realized I was skipping about every tenth heartbeat. And so, I had like an existential crisis because I'm like, all right, heart, you know, do I need to call 911? It's just like, am I about to have a heart attack? Am I about to die? And so I go under the table, and I Google, and I'm like, "Is this a problem?" And Dr. Google said, "No, it's okay. It's fine. You just might want to cut back a little bit on the caffeine."David Senra: You said something that I love, and I never hear other entrepreneurs talk about, but I think it's super important that you don't have any levels of introspection.Marc Andreessen: Yes. Zero. As little as possible.David Senra: Why?Marc Andreessen: Move forward. Go. Yeah, I don't know. I've just found people who dwell in the past, get stuck in the past. It's a real problem, and it's a problem at work, and it's a problem at home.David Senra: So, I've read obviously 400 and, I think, now 10 biographies of history's greatest entrepreneurs.Marc Andreessen: Yeah.David Senra: And that was one of the most surprising things, like what's the most surprising thing that you've learned from this? They're like, "Oh, they have little or zero introspection."Marc Andreessen: Yeah.David Senra: Sam Walton didn't wake up thinking about his internal self. He just woke up, he's like, "I like building Walmart. I'm going to keep building Walmart. I'm going to make more Walmarts," and just kept doing it over and over again.Marc Andreessen: And you probably know, if you go back, before 100 years ago, it never would have occurred to anybody to be introspective. Like, the whole idea of, I mean, just all of the modern conceptions around introspection and therapy and all the things that kind of result from that are kind of manufactured in the 1910s, 1920s.David Senra: Say more about that.Marc Andreessen: Great men of history didn't sit around doing this stuff at any prior point, right? It's all a new construct. So, first Western civilization had to kind of invent the concept of the individual, right? Which was like a new concept several hundred years ago. And then, for a long time, it was all right, the individual runs, right? And does all these things, and builds things, and builds empires, and builds companies, and builds technology, and does all these things. And then, kind of this guilt-based whammy showed up from Europe, a lot of it from Vienna, in the 1910s, 1920s, Freud and all that entire movement. And kind of turned all that inward and basically said, "Okay, now we need to basically second-guess the individual. We need to criticize the individual. The individual needs to self-criticize," right? The individual needs to feel guilt, needs to look backwards, and needs to dwell on the past. It never resonated with me.David Senra: Do you find a lot of the greatest founders that you've spent time with, and backed, and partnered with or have low introspection?Marc Andreessen: Yeah, generally. Although, in fairness, the introspection is probably linked to the personality trait of neuroticism, right? So, a lot of the best founders are, I think, at 0% neuroticism. They just don't get emotionally fazed by things that happen, which is a superpower when you're an entrepreneur. But having said that, some of the great entrepreneurs are, in fact, very neurotic. That's also the case. Maybe it's nice to have to be low neuroticism, but not necessary.  And so, there are some that kind of get wrapped around the axle, on kind of personal issues. As you know, these days, sometimes that then, kind of turns into the use of psychedelics, different kinds, and hallucinogenic drugs. And that's like one very interesting kind of trajectory for the kind of the culture of the country, culture of the world, and we'll see where that goes.David Senra: So we've recorded, I don't know, like a dozen of these so far, most of them with some of the greatest founders living for the show. I can't believe how many times on almost every episode psychedelics pops up.Marc Andreessen: Yeah.David Senra: And they're like, "You should try them." I'm like, "I'm not doing any drugs."Marc Andreessen: Just want to be clear, I'm not. I never have. I'm never going to. You know, the problem is I already have tons of horror stories from people I know, or know of, that kind of came out the other side like... Well, actually, my deepest conversation on this was actually with Huberman. And I was describing this phenomenon where we see in Silicon Valley where these guys get under pressure, and they kind of feel anxious or whatever, and somebody tells them about psychedelics, and they try it. And they kind of come out the other end as a changed person, and they kind of come out much more at peace, but then they also tend to quit their companies. And they move to Indonesia and become a surf instructor. There's just peace out, right? They're just done. There's been a whole bunch of examples of this, and I was complaining to Huberman about this. And in true Huberman kind of wise Yoda style, he's like, "Well, how do you know they're not happier?" Right?David Senra: Yeah.Marc Andreessen: Maybe that was the positive outcome. Maybe the thing that was driving them to be a great entrepreneur was a fundamental level of insecurity, right, and kind of this unsatisfied, kind of neurotic impulse. And now they're just satisfied. Now they're just, whatever the serotonin levels or whatever have been recalibrated, that they're just kind of satisfied sitting on the beach and being a surf instructor. Maybe they're better off. And I'm like, "Yeah, but their company is failing." And so anyway, yeah. There's a possibility that there's a better version of you or me on the other side of Ayahuasca, but I'm not willing to find out.David Senra: I'm not either. Daniel Ek has the greatest way to put this. He thinks the best entrepreneurs are not optimizing for happiness; they're optimizing for impact.Marc Andreessen: I think that's true. I think that's true. I think it's certainly true for Daniel, yeah, who's kind of a great case study of that. Having said that, I always kind of wonder is that, well, intrinsic versus extrinsic motivations. Impact strikes me a little bit as an extrinsic motivation. It's like, yeah, impact, money, fame, you know... And by the way, I think extrinsic motivations are fantastic, and I think they can be very motivating. The people who kind of get the great rewards for building great things deserve them. But at least what I've found is it's the intrinsic motivations that actually get people up in the morning. And that's where you're dangerously close to straying into introspection, but it's like, what is the thing that causes somebody who's now extremely materially wealthy, extremely successful, to get up in the morning and continue to kind of punch away at the world? I think those tend to be interior.David Senra: What's that for you?Marc Andreessen: Oh, I mean, that would require introspection. I'll let other people speculate.David Senra: No, you have to have...Marc Andreessen: It's a lot more fun to speculate about other people's introspect...David Senra: But I am curious about you, because you have a series of quotes that I absolutely love. I save on my phone. I reread from time to time. One of them, and I'll butcher it, but it's just like, the world is way more malleable than you think.Marc Andreessen: Mm-hmm.David Senra: And if you just pursue something with a lot of maximum effort, drive, and energy, the world will recalibrate around you easier than you think.Marc Andreessen: Yeah.David Senra: And I actually re-read that this morning before I came over here, and I was like, what is that for Mark? Today, what are you waking up trying to change in the world?Marc Andreessen: Yeah, there's a lot that we're actually trying to do. I'm suspicious that that's my actual underlying motivation. Yeah.David Senra: Why?Marc Andreessen: Just because, I don't think an external impact is enough to keep people going, or at least I've seen way too many people who had a high level of external impact, and then at some point, they just stop.David Senra: Okay.Marc Andreessen: Well, here's the problem with external impact. It's like, okay, it's four in the morning, you're staring at the ceiling, is that enough? Right. External impact is stuff that's happening to other people, right? But all right, what is it about you?David Senra: Yeah.Marc Andreessen: The story I like to tell myself is that I'm competing with myself, right? The story I like to tell myself is I'm getting up in the morning because I'm trying to become a better version of myself. I'm trying to become smarter and better informed, and reach better conclusions, and be better at what I do, and continue to expand my skills. But again, to actually analyze that properly would require a level of therapy that I'm not willing to engage in. So anyway, so yes, the much more comfortable conversation is "What are you trying to do in the world," which I would love to talk about.David Senra: I have almost no introspection either, so I understand that.Marc Andreessen: Right. Yeah.David Senra: All right, so tell me what you're trying to do in the world then.Marc Andreessen: Yeah, I mean, look, we have had this... It's actually fairly amazing that it's become a controversial kind of thing, but we just have this like fundamental view that technology is, on balance, an enormously powerful force in the world, and basically that the big problem with the world is that there's not enough technology, there's not enough information, there's not enough intelligence. And we have this opportunity, we have these special sets of technologies that let us fundamentally improve things. And then there's this very special kind of personality type of the entrepreneur, who's able to build the product, and then able to build the company, and build a phenomenon, and really make an impact on things. And when I look at the world, I'm just like, okay, this is just like... The world we live in is just a very primitive and crude place as compared to what it should be, and what it could be. And so the whole thing that we've been trying to do for 17 years at our firm is build kind of the ideal partner to the founders that are trying to do that, based on our own experiences of having been founders that we're trying to do that. Overall, the world, especially the Western world, is just stagnant. The overall kind of theme of things is just everything is stagnant, and we could talk a lot about that.David Senra: Mm-hmm.Marc Andreessen: But every once in a while, you have somebody who comes along, and it's just like, all right, no, I actually have an idea of how to make things fundamentally better, and I have a way to build a business around that, and build a company, build an empire around that. And those people, include ourselves in this, but those of us that are trying to do that, we're like a rough movement basically against stagnation. But without us, there's nothing but stagnation.David Senra: Mm-hmm.Marc Andreessen: But it's actually really funny. There's always this kind of criticism that you get from, whatever kind of, as I say, the corporate press or a kind of outside critics, which is like, "Oh, you VCs are funding the wrong things," or, "You entrepreneurs are building the wrong things." It's like, well, nobody licensed us to do any of this. We didn't apply for a permit, right? Get judged by somebody ahead of time and told, "Yes, you get to do this, you don't get to do this." Many people could be trying to do this. Anybody can do this. Anybody can start, build a product, start a company, start, even try to be a VC. These are all completely open fields. And it's just shocking to me how few people actually give it a shot. And the fate of the world over the next 1500 years is riding on the people who actually want to give it a shot.David Senra: I want to tell you about the presenting sponsor of this podcast, Ramp. I have been reading a lot about SpaceX lately. SpaceX is one of the most valuable private businesses in the world, and one of the main themes in the history of SpaceX is constantly attacking and questioning your cost. Ramp helps many of the most innovative businesses in the world do exactly that. The median company running on Ramp cuts their expenses by 5%. And one thing SpaceX has demonstrated is that a religious dedication to controlling costs can help actually increase revenue, because you can pursue opportunities you couldn't otherwise. And we see that in the Ramp data too. The median company running on Ramp also grows their revenue by 16%. So, when you're running your business on Ramp and your competitors are not, you have a massive competitive advantage that compounds over time. Ramp is the only platform designed to make your finance team faster and happier. Many of the top founders and CEOs I know run their business on Ramp. I run my business on Ramp, and you should too. Go to ramp.com to learn how they can help your business save time, save money, and grow revenue. That is ramp.com. So, when you started the firm 17 years ago, was your thesis exactly the same as it is today?Marc Andreessen: I'd say the core thesis is the same. The specifics have varied; they have changed enormously. We can talk about both parts of that. But yeah, no, the core thesis was kind of the startup, the entrepreneur, the founder is going to be the core engine of progress in the world, and I think that's more true than ever. In fact, when we started, it was still controversial, the idea that a founder would run their own company.David Senra: Yeah. Even in 2008, 2009?Marc Andreessen: Yeah. Yeah. Well, it was still very controversial, and in fact, there were high-profile companies at the time that were getting heavily criticized for basically having these little kids running these companies.David Senra: Okay, so you have this encyclopedic knowledge of the history of Silicon Valley in your head. I probably read, I don't know, 30 to 40 books on it, so at some level, but not that you do. I remember reading a book on Nolan Bushnell, founder of Atari, who was 27 at the time, and it was excessively rare. It talks about that. In his story, it's just excessively rare for him not to be replaced once Atari started growing with an older CEO.Marc Andreessen: Yeah.David Senra: Were there other examples before him?Marc Andreessen: Well, so Christopher Columbus. Alexander the Great.David Senra: Yeah.Marc Andreessen: Right? So, throughout history, most of the... Thomas Jefferson. Throughout history, most of the great things that have been built have been built by this kind of super-charismatic founder type, you know, will to power founder type, who, basically, built and run something to...David Senra: Yeah. Okay, hold on.Marc Andreessen: Henry Ford.David Senra: Hold on. I love that you went here because you don't remember this, but we had dinner in Miami with Jared Kushner, a year ago or something, and me and you would wrestle because I was so excited to talk to you, and I was trying to get out of you like... Because I think about how history's greatest entrepreneurs all day.Marc Andreessen: Yeah. Mm.David Senra: This is what I do seven days a week. Who are these entrepreneurs from history that you like? You just started naming country founders.Marc Andreessen: Yes, true. Exactly. There's this recency bias, right? Which is like the world that we live in today is the normal state of the world. And everything that happened in the past is weird and different, and those people were dumber than we are, and all screwed up. And it's like, well, maybe.David Senra: Mm-hmm.Marc Andreessen: Or, maybe the world worked a certain way for thousands of years, and we're in the weird time. Maybe we're in a time that's just really unusual from a historical standpoint. And I think this is one of those dimensions in which that's true. It never would have occurred to anybody a 100, 200, 300 years ago that if somebody was going to start something, that they were going to be the person who ran it, like obviously. It was just obviously the case. The book that I always recommend on this topic is called "The Machiavellians," which is this sort of a famous book from the 1940s, by this guy James Burnham, who's one of the great geniuses of the 20th century. The way he describes it, basically, is he said, look, there have been two fundamental modes of business organization over the course of, basically, the history of capitalism. There's what he calls bourgeois capitalism, which, basically, is like the founder runs the company, name on the door. And the classic archetype for bourgeois capitalism was Henry Ford, in the 1920s, and today it's Elon Musk, right? It's just like, that's you. And by the way, in the old days, it was Ford Motor Company, you know, it's not Musk Motor Company.David Senra: Yeah.Marc Andreessen: But everybody knows Tesla and SpaceX, you know, these are Elon. And again, that maps to this historical thing, which is that's also how countries ran, and that's also how cities ran, and all these things. Religions, by the way. Basically, everything, founders led the way. That's the historical norm. And then what he basically says in this book is he goes through and he says that there's this new model that basically is an artifact, again, it's an artifact of kind of this weird period of time between the 1880s and 1920s, where kind of the modern world, as we know it today, kind of formed. And he said there's sort of a new philosophy of sort of leadership and management, which is called managerialism, sort of the rise of the concept of a manager. And specifically a manager as contrasted to a leader. And so, therefore, the manager, therefore, the idea of a management school.David Senra: Right.Marc Andreessen: Therefore Harvard and Stanford Business Schools, right? Therefore, the idea of the manager who replaces the founder running a company. Therefore, the idea of management as a skill set that can be used to run many different kinds of businesses. In the '70s, this then turned into the conglomerate, which was the idea that it doesn't matter what the company does; if you have a good manager, the company should do 30 different things. And so managerialism is this idea that you have this kind of interchangeable management skill, and that that can basically run anything. And actually what Burnham says is he says, "Look, people are going to try to draw a value judgment on this, and they're going to try to say this is better or worse than the old name on the door model." But he said, "The reality of the modern world is everything is big."David Senra: Mm-hmm.Marc Andreessen: For the electrical power grid to get big, or the road network to get big, or the car industry to get big, large-scale systems need to be run by people who are trained in how to run large-scale systems. And so he said, "You may or may not..." And the same thing with countries. Large-scale countries are going to need to be run by people who are good at running large-scale things, right? And the founding personality type is not the manager personality type. Those are different. And so there's going to be a han

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